ADVANCE: Take Your Next Step with Mike Acker

Ep 20 | Integrity - The secret of inspiring and motivating your entire company to achieve success with Jeffrey Klubeck [ Season 2 ]

July 18, 2022 Mike Acker
ADVANCE: Take Your Next Step with Mike Acker
Ep 20 | Integrity - The secret of inspiring and motivating your entire company to achieve success with Jeffrey Klubeck [ Season 2 ]
Show Notes Transcript

What does it mean to be a leader of integrity, and what does integrity mean in the workplace? Companies with a culture of integrity know that when the value drives employees, they understand and execute their responsibilities ethically and proactively, hold themselves accountable for their results, and are – in short – a true asset.


In this episode of the Advance Podcast, Mike interviews coach and author Jeffrey Klubeck about the importance of integrity at work and how it powers organizational growth. They discuss ways to cultivate motivation, accountability and communication and dig into what it means to be an ethical leader. Watch out for Jeffrey’s 3-step method of holding people accountable for their actions!




Where do you draw motivation from?




Motivation can come from outside sources and can also be internal. External motivation involves the strategies, tactics, and resources that inspire you to take action or move from a place of mistake or confusion. Internal motivation is knowing what works for you and making decisions that go with your mindset, values, attitudes, beliefs, fears, perspectives, faith, and everything that influences your insides.


What is accountability? In what ways does accountability show up in our lives?



Accountability can sound confrontational and almost aggressive sometimes. Because when you confront somebody on their story, commitments, or report their work, performance, results, or mindset, it involves coming face-to-face with a report of their work. But it's far from it. Accountability is the willingness to be vulnerable.

What do you do when you don’t like the person you’re holding accountable?


Move from the point of dwelling in judgment and replace that with questions. Appreciative inquiry, mutual discovery, rapport, strategy building, offering debriefing. Drop your dislike for the person while you’re assessing them professionally. Use communication strategies, techniques, and questions to get to that point.

What strategies can an accountability coach employ to hold employees accountable for their actions?


Jeffrey’s three-step approach for holding people accountable for their actions involves:

  1. Getting people to own their results or actions. Ask questions compassionately but know that you’re going to get answers always short of the 100% accountable point.
  2. The next point is what you can call leverage. At this point, you can make them understand the consequence of doing or not doing something.
  3. Get a de-commitment or a recommitment. Help them commit to something they can achieve.

What does it mean to be an ethical leader?


An ethical leader tries to motivate people toward pleasure instead of away from pain. Their principles, when simply stated, can be like, 'Don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal'. If you can lead people towards pleasure without lying, cheating, or stealing, or encouraging them to lie, cheat or steal, you're closer to an ethical leader than a boss, a manager, a director, a supervisor, or direct, according to Jeffrey.

(Full shownotes at

How many of you would raise your hand say I'm a  person of integrity now what does that mean those   are some of the questions that Jeffrey Klubeck  asked when he does keynotes and today we're going   to talk about integrity and really how that's  part of the success of motivating and holding   your team accountable as well as for you as a  leader as a person who wants to advance your life   check out this fast and furious  conversation with Jeffrey Klubeck Welcome to advance with Mike Acker the podcast  designed to help entrepreneurs business leaders   and professionals alike break through barriers by  improving their practical leadership skills and   increasing confidence in speaking. Your host  is a best-selling author executive coach and   founder of the advanced public speaking  school and advantage publishing group   two companies dedicated to providing an edge for  leaders find out more about Mike at  Now here's your host Mike Acker Jeffrey thank you so much  for being on the show today   thank you mike looking forward to diving in  and what I want to do is dive into a question   that I'm intrigued by when I was reading  about you kind of studying your book and   studying a little bit about you you talk a lot  about motivation and I'm a huge huge student I   love the idea of motivation written about it  thought about it a whole bunch so talk to us   about where we get motivation from personally  and how we can help others be motivated? Wow! that's yeah it's fun to take these concepts  that may be subjective or nebulous or theoretical   or conceptual right concepts and get them a  little more actionable so like with something   like motivation it's to be so broad it  helped me to just look at two different   frames internal and external right. so external motivation you're talking   about "strategies" ,"tactics" and "resources". if my wife for example says make dinner for the   kids I might be paralyzed or stuck but if she says  make dinner for the kids and the ingredients the   instructions and the tools are on the counter I'll  just go so all of a sudden by giving me external   motivation strategies tactics resources I'm a  little less concerned about making mistakes or   I'm a little less stuck a little so you know  the map the directions the canteen of water   these are external strategies tactics resources so  it's not enough though just to get some strategy   I think that people need to know themselves know  their behavior behavioral instincts if you will   their personality types or what's instinctually  natural for them and select strategy that   integrates that syncs with their natural  behavioral style wouldn't do me any good   to choose a strategy that I dislike or it seems  like meals on the chalkboard for me um there's   a lot of different ways to the same destination  so there should be a strategy that's going to fit   my behavioral style it's not a matter of finding  it learning it studying it most things that can   be achieved out there have been achieved and are  study-able right uh it but none of that matters   none of that matters if if you're trying to build  a mansion on top of quicksand and I mean you know   mindset so internal so external strategies  tactics resources but internal is your "mindset"   your "values" your "attitudes" your "beliefs"  your "fears" your "perspectives" your "faith"   anything that's influencing what's going on  inside so that includes knowing what you want   a lot of people don't know what they want  right so deciding what you want is a great   way to get yourself motivated where people have  a hard time figuring out my purpose my gifts my   potential and without making those decisions it's  really hard to sync up internal external sources   of motivation if we don't have a north star  if we don't have a major major guiding force   so there's a lot more to say about motivation but  the the where I'd start is internal and external. yeah I think that's absolutely great! so as you're listening to this today   thank you so much for tuning in check this  out and I'm going to introduce Jeffrey a   little bit let him talk about who he is  where he comes from but here's a great   starting point for you as you're driving  as you're thinking as you're watching. what is your internal motivation? if you're not quite sure   we'll give you some thoughts along the way  today and maybe even just doing something   temporary you don't have to set your  whole life in motion and then what is   your external motivation what's going to help you  out there I love that Jeffrey that you're saying   it's different there's different  tactics a checklist is great for some   not great for others so great realizations  but who are you Jeffrey who are you to speak   to us on self-image and motivation and all these  different areas that we're going to cover today? yeah I'm just a guy just a guy that has just  a guy from a credibility perspective why would   people listen to a guy like me I have a master's  degree in communication I believe I am a master of   communication who has a master's in communication  some of our gifts are God-given and then some of   them are self-generated and I am a big fan  of integrating God-given with self-generated   gifts right so I taught public speaking for common  public speaking and communication modules for 20   years so brick and mortar thousands of students  have gotten past their fear of public speaking   into a a level of competence when it comes to  communication presenting ideas organizing thoughts   etc. I obviously I'm preaching to the choir when  we talk about the value of public speaking Mike I   mean your track record speaks for itself and  what you've done in public speaking and how   you've helped others and and then what I'd when I  got into personal professional growth that's when   it got really exciting because they they fed each  other I was a better per I was a better professor   because I'm a professor but I just taught  them talk to them like a coach like let's   motivate you they told you accountable  let's select strategy let's so there was   the rah-rah that I was able to do and I had  a stand-up comedian type of delivery style   I love teaching classes. I didn't  like grading papers so much but   you know so I learned that you know you make it  fun and you get people engaged. You and what you   know public speaking was one thing the people  that were going to embrace it and use it and   later on that was cool but when I found out Mike  I was teaching people to finish what they start   I was teaching people to pay attention to to  follow directions to support classmates I was   teaching people to show up I was teaching people  to be aware of due dates I was teaching right and   to take pride in their work and to to not worry  about the the the things not to worry about. so that had nothing to do with what was in  the textbook of public speaking those things   and I was able to to really make a difference for  my students in those ways because I understood   motivation, accountability, and engagement as  from my personal professional growth education   and I became a coach and built a coaching  practice and built a coach's training because   I was a professor so when I went through my  coaches training right when I was consuming   the content of coaches training and unstructured  training I was a little critical you know because   I knew about student learning objectives  and I knew about content and exercises   and homework and assignments and competency  and quizzes and how to structure curriculum   and there are some things you know to be  noticed but I had to keep my head down and just   stay in the training for what I was there for  which is learn how to coach and learn how to   build a coaching practice and I thought instead of  correcting this guy's training I'll just do my own   when I know how to coach so I built a coaching  practice built a coach's training around   my methodology for coaching I keep telling you  what you know what it's built on these three words   engagement motivation and accountability and um  and I built the coaching practice it took me all   around the world and I've been on four continents  12 countries many many major cities within those   countries so I've worked with entrepreneurs all  over the world I've gotten thousands of people   past the fear of public speaking I've earned six  figures year after year after year you know just   convincing people to talk to me and I'm just think  I'm just a guy you know but that doesn't mean that   none of those reasons are reasons to listen to  me that's just who I am. I always think that   you know the reasons to listen to me are  really truly in the ears of the beholder. yeah we'll get I'm excited to see what we cover  here today and I know it's gonna be helpful to   people as you as you know the huge area that I  talk about is that fear of speaking in the book   that I've written on that now has over  a thousand ratings and a lot of colleges   have picked it up so it's pretty exciting  let's talk about this accountability aspect  yeah when it comes to   accountability there's some different thoughts  on it and so how can we help people so think   about the person who's listening right here and  they're thinking I need to be held accountable   or they're in a position of leadership and they  need to hold people accountable so talk to us a   little bit about the value of accountability and  some of the forms and methods in which it takes? ah, this is one of my favorite topics um and  you and you asked it in a really beautiful way   I could you know to see the the the totality  of it in front of me first of all to for the   second part first of all for the second part the  people that need to hold other people accountable   right right the leaders the leaders right  let's say you're a top contributing top   producing contributor and then they elevate  you to manager and now you've got to hold all   of your friends accountable because you got the  raise and the promotion of their job right yep  You need to learn accountability or let's say you  start a business you've got employees you want to   run it like a family because but now you're  a dysfunctional family that has no idea how   to hold each other accountable. congratulations  right so there's a lot of people out there that   need to hold other people accountable and  it's very funny I set this up to say this.   It starts with being held accountable so if you  are in a position where you know you're going to   need to hold others accountable you must the first  recommendation is that you've had the experience   of being accountable being held accountable that  you understand what accountability is if somebody   came up to you said what's accountability that  you have an answer that you have an idea of what   it means and and I'm going to go deeper if  you like really I'm going to go like this is   the answer you may not have expected it takes  LOVE it takes love on surface accountability we   hear about a light a fire under my  butt I need you to push me uh kick my   butt get in my face hold me accountable! it seems so confrontational and almost   aggressive and but it that's all on surface  the truth of the matter is it takes love to   hold somebody accountable and by that I mean  the willingness to be vulnerable because when we   do confront somebody on their story on their  commitments on their reporting on their behavior   and their performance and their results on  their mindset it is so much confrontation okay let me pause on this right here yeah yeah I love that you're saying it   takes love because absolutely right I mean with my  son very easy to hold him accountable in some ways   I absolutely love him and hey buddy this  is not good for you etc. or this is good   for you and I want the best for you but  sometimes we manage people that we don't   even like and sometimes we direct people we  don't even like and if we're even honest with   ourselves sometimes we are looking our own selves  and we don't even like ourselves so right so what   do you do when you don't like the person that  you're holding accountable and therefore maybe   don't even love them and what do you do when it's  external or what do you do when it's internal? yeah um you don't like them you love them  you're liking them isn't I'm not talking   about liking them I am talking about loving  them I'm talking about you know leadership   is love right with your son your dad and you've  got a little bit of a you know power authority   you know some in-group association right you know  um there's the the relationship is multi-layered   you know and some of those layers can dilute other  layers right um it's interesting but you know   I love your honesty when you say well  sometimes you don't like the person   well we if we're a leader right it doesn't matter  what we like we gotta get the job done we gotta we   gotta you know maybe I'll like them better if I  can help them grow personally and professionally   so I have to stay out of judgment which is  more of a management piece right and into   leadership which is help this person be the  best version of themselves they could possibly   be and if I'm judging them and I'm paying  attention to that voice in my head about   a characteristic of behavior or decision they  made that I wouldn't have made or I don't know   why they did that etc. and if I let myself go  like pain is mandatory but suffering is optional   so I have to quickly sever the dwelling  and the judgment and replace that with   questions, appreciative, inquiry, mutual  discovery, rapport building ,a strategy   offering and debriefing uh 360 behavior I have all  these other tools at my disposal that I would use   instead of judgment or dwelling in any dislike for  a person and now you bring up another interesting   thing what if we don't like ourselves and we  don't like the person well they're very it's   the same thing we have to love ourselves we have  to love other people so none of us are perfect   none of us are going to be perfect but we all have  the opportunity to say that we are trying to get   better every day we're working to get better every  day I have an idea of what better is I have a   plan to get there and I'm in action on that plan. if you want anything else from me let's talk about   it but I need to be a product of the product back  to what I was saying before I need to be somebody   that understands accountability I need to be  somebody that has been held accountable I need to   be somebody that can explain accountability maybe  even teach structures in accountability which we   could get to the x's and o's of how you actually  hold somebody accountable like if somebody might   makes a commitment to you on a Tuesday says  they're going to do something for themselves   for their own goal achievement. like it's  not really going to matter for you whether   they do it or not unless you're responsible for  their productivity but if they say they're going   to do something on a Tuesday and then you meet  with them on the following Tuesday and you say   yes or no did you do it or not they go no now  what do you do there's there's communication   strategies there's techniques there's  communication structures there's questions   and objectives that an accountability coach  or a leader wants to achieve in that moment.  The moment that somebody is quote out  of integrity around a commitment there's   x's and o's communication strategy  for that but at a high level yeah Give us some of those x's and o's too because  I think it's I think people are walking away   going okay I love the the understanding  I love the idea of loving them I get it   that makes sense my mind grabs a hold of  that what are some of the x's and those   what are some of the strategies  and tactics I can put into place? yeah I'll give you very very very very very very  core core core very easy to understand harder   to execute three-step approach when you are out  of integrity with yourself or somebody's out of   integrity with you and it doesn't mean they're a  bad person you follow this is one of the things we   have to get through like when you say you're out  of integrity it doesn't mean you have no integrity   it just means you said you were going to do  something you didn't do it it's just math it's   not judgment you follow right so that's that's a  big piece but here are three things that you do   a three-step approach so if your son Mike says to  you that he's going to do something and then you   follow up and say did you do that here are three  things you can do with your son right if you're a   manager and a direct report says they're going  to do something and they didn't do it here are   three things you can do with the direct report if  you're a new coach out there and you're having a   hard time holding your client accountable  especially because you don't want them to   get mad at you and fire you because you need the  income here are three things you can do are you   guys you know are you with me on how I'm setting  this up yeah this is useful for so many people. yeah so when somebody is out of integrity around a  commitment when when it's discovered when it comes   up in the leadership conversation that somebody  says no I did not do what I said I was going to do   the first thing you want to do is get them to  own it that's first thing you do is that's the   objective own it they have to own it so you would  ask a question like "well, why didn't you do   that?" right now what you have to be ready for and  this is why you need love in your heart because   you need patience and you need compassion because  here's what you're going to get you're going to   get something short of 100% responsibility well  I was going to but or well I meant to but oh well   I decided I was going to do something else  or whatever it is you follow but it might be   something short of 100% responsibility  maybe they do take 100% responsibility   and they say well I know I committed to that in  our last session but um three things happened and   then I decided I was just going to do this instead  and so what I did was actually better because   and you know what they're doing is they're putting  up all the smoke in the mirrors does that do   you hear that right and this sounds familiar yeah  absolutely so you got to come back and say hang on   hang on a second who's responsible who  made the commitment? when did you know   that you weren't going to do this anymore?  who is responsible for this? so there's all   kinds of follow-up questions to  you have to get them to sit in.   This is a hard thing to do in admission they  have to acknowledge instead of excusing,   instead of shuffling, or oh I was going to but  the cats spilled the milk and then it made me 15   minutes late and then traffic and by that point  I just decided what the you know whatever right.   They can't they can't be in a state of mind or  they can't be communicating excuse or anything   other than taking responsibility right? It may not be a big deal right but they   still it's a it's less of a deal as soon as  they take responsibility. Like hey I said I   was going to do that and I didn't do that is  there anybody else responsible for this no   no it's me. I failed on this one this is I wasn't  my word I didn't do what I said I forgot I didn't   remind myself I wasn't powerful I whatever they  need to say it's got to have an I statement and   then that accepting of the responsibility for the  thing being done and what their word was right. I love that there's a duality in  both motivation and accountability   yes and I know that one of the things  that you'd like to say again again is that   motivation and accountability equals  results that's right and so there's a   duality and motivation internal external there's  duality and accountability internal external. correct yeah and and and I can break it down other  ways too this comes from you you understand when   people are in public speaking when they're  deciding on their topic topics vast right so   what we have to do is help them break that topic  down into main points and then the sub points   can't talk about there's no speech in the world  that is enough time to talk about every topic   so guys like you and I we have a lot of experience  with categorical thinking is this topical is it   chronological is it spatial geographical we've  got partitions in our mind to help break large   subjects down right so there's a lot of different  ways we could do it but internal external is a   very easy frame and and so back to the three  steps right that one is get them to own it   okay once they own it then you can go into  step two which is you know you could call   it if I'm training someone you call it leverage  right you know somebody like Tony Robbins might   call it leverage where you have leverage on your  subject right which gives you more power than you   would have had without it's like a communication  tool and leverage is getting people associated   to the consequences of being or not being our word  or doing or not doing so there's a duality here as   well there's other consequences the two rewards  same two categories two sides the same coin   of when we are our word number one right our sense  of self strength is right our own internal sense   of integrity like I did what I said I was going  to do so that makes me stronger mindset wise my   chest is out a little higher I'm standing a little  taller because I am a person of my word every time   I do what I said I was going to do so that's one  benefit and then the other benefit is I'm closer   to some goal you know whatever when I take action  right I'm going to learn something or I'm going   to advance somewhere if so when I do what I say  I'm going to do I always get those two benefits   progress towards a goal and a sense of self when  I fail to be my word those are the two categories   as well those are the two consequences my sense of  self diminishes or disintegrates a little bit and   then if I don't do what I said I was going to do  then I'm no closer to getting what I wanted to get   so there's a duality there so we want to help  people as leaders feel and acknowledge the   consequences of having not done what they said  they were going to do and then once they own it   once they feel the consequences now we're ready  to do step three which is get a de-commitment   or a re-commitment so we can't leave that program  running in the background we're either gonna close   that and decommit to it or we're gonna recommit to  it and turn the screw of accountability a little   bit and make sure that we do a better job as  leaders helping them keep their word this time   right so a lot of times it's the leader  and the coach that has to work hard at   not letting somebody commit to something that  has a high probability that they won't do it but wait a minute I want to move to  leadership so I don't have to do as much   I'm sorry so I want to move to  leadership so I don't have to do as much   yeah yeah well I that I would agree with that  there's a dot hanging there that is a thought   process people have it is a process well guess  what you're just treating you know you'll you'll   always have to do more than what what you're doing  what there's nothing wrong with that statement   if you just finish it right because it sounds  incomplete ready here's how it sounds in my head   I want to move to leadership so I won't  have to do as much technician work. Okay yeah but now you're still going to have to do  a lot of managing technician work and the mindset   and the egos and the politics and different  levels of responsibilities of advance that's why   I believe as I do I love thank you by the way  for quoting motivation plus accountability equals   results that's the subtext of the integrity game  but I also believe soft skills make strong leaders   soft skills make strong teams soft  skills make strong organizations   so you're going to be working hard at the  soft skills and when you move into leadership I say that in talking in chief  because it's very interesting   when sometimes there can be a thought  process like I've worked my butt off on   as a contributor I've coded I've done the tech  work I've shown up I've done the deliveries   and now I get the chair and now I get to to  lead and just read and just whatever it is   that people have this view of but really even  as you're talking about this accountability   aspect there's a lot of work that now it's not so  much that you're doing for yourself the tech work   but you're doing for others and yeah yeah  there's a higher level of responsibility Well it's a different level of responsibility  I think that everybody should see what their   responsibilities are as the most important thing  right yeah you know everybody's everything's only   strong is the weakest link so if everybody sees  their link is the most important link in the chain   every change every link is going to thrive um  so I would say different not more not that you   know what I mean I wouldn't go hierarchical  even though there is in corporations but   the thing about it is the misnomer  the mindset piece that people need to let me push back I actually think there  is more not because of the hierarchy   but because now you're there's more than just you  on at stake yeah yeah or me I mean as a single guy   my the responsibility was to feed myself hey  I can feed myself and if I don't feed myself   then the only person that's paying for that  is is me then you have a family of kids you   have people who are responsible for and I do  think there's a higher level there's a more   responsibility and a higher level hierarchical  sense said that with other people said That way I hear you I still would say it's  more challenging or more expansive like like   the point the only point that I want to make  not better or worse right is different level   different skill set right so it's the speaking  of the mindsets like hey congratulations you've   done your time you've paid your dues and you  get to go from on your feet to in the chair   well now there's all sets of dues to be paid in  the chair now you're like you haven't graduated   you've just started something new and so all  that you know like like let's say there's 12   dues to pay you hit on your feet in the factory  floor right well how many dues are there to pay in   the chair or is this the only level you want so we  still can't constantly need to condition people to   declare what what's their north star you know if  your north star used to be to get in the chair now   that you're in the chair what's the north star and  when and when they say well from here I want to go   there all right so now what do you need to learn  master what do you need to pay in order to get   there and take 100% and it is if they're focused  on what their dues are what they're do you know   then those and they're serious about that then the  responsibilities for caring for others will come   with it I think but I hear what you're saying man  when you back to teaching classes uh as as as a   professor I'll give you a story from the classroom  that validates what you're saying because I hear   you once you restate it uh more clearly thank  you is that I'm just pushing the buttons I just   when you got to group communication modules I  would say everybody needs to do their persuasive   speeches as groups and and at first I didn't  want to assign I didn't want to feel them that   they were pressed upon and I assign their  groups and say hey you guys figure out what   groups you want to be in groups of three or  four not two not five three or four and come   up with a topic and you hold the whole thing  submit a topic that's not you need teach group   communication how to have effective meetings how  to delegate the tasks how to come together quality   assign roles all of that stuff anyway um after  the first semester of doing it I'll never forget   the a students the best students in the class  would come up to me like chad you know professor   I got a bad group the guy's not doing his work  and they didn't show up for the meeting and I   had to do it all and I want an and they  don't care and I got that I'm like oh no   I just punished this poor person who's doing  great work all semester long now all of a sudden   somebody said hey can I be in your group and now  they're doing all of the work that wasn't cool of   me so I created a student evaluation form like  and I would say hey guess what you're going to   be in groups you decide your groups but you could  do peer review anonymous and turn it in if any of   your group members aren't performing you rate them  in these categories turn that in that'll affect   their grade and then that has more work for me and  nobody would do it it felt awkward so what I have   you know I mean so here's what I ended up  doing mike I ended up saying all right here's   the deal you're going to do a group speech at  the end you're going to be in groups of three   and the number one point earner in class was  automatically going to be in a group with   number two and number three and then four five  six would be in a group and seven eight nine   would be in a group and and then as I'm saying  this I'm looking around like that's right 27,   28 and 29. you guys are all going to be together  they all started looking over their shoulders   okay so what would happen was then we'd get to  the end of the semester and of course that's how   the groups were assigned and these people that  to your point mike left to their own devices   only having to worry about themselves all  semester long were failing or getting d's   and now they were in a group situation  and they didn't want to be the weak link   so there's these people that were by themselves  as individuals failing my class failing their   class well my class it's their class right they  were failing their class and then on the last   speech the big speech the big persuasive speech  they would come and get b's and a's and their   personalities would come out and they cared it  was amazing to see what people were willing to do   when they knew they were responsible for others  that they weren't willing to do for themselves Yeah that's fascinating yeah so  so motivation yeah accountability   you get this in a lot of what you're saying  can really revolve around an idea that you   are just obsessed with and so I think  this would be a great way for us to   to take the conversation here and it really has  to do with ethical leadership what does it mean   to be an ethical leader what does it mean to  inspire what does it mean to motivate your team   and ultimately comes down to it and it's the  name of your book integrity so yeah what does   it mean to be a person who's playing a game the  game of work the game of life with integrity and   what are some ways that we can do that as  leaders of ourself and leaders of others? Yeah it's a great question first of all broadly   um ethical leadership means I mean I didn't write  the book on ethical leadership you know there's   other sources you know if you want to  break down that term okay but again what I'm going for there  is integrity in that sense yeah yeah I wanna I'll give you guys integrity I  wanna address this piece it's very simple right   you know we can think about what we do want  or we can think about what we don't want   right and so most people are motivated you know  human beings are motivated by one of two forces   either away from pain or towards pleasure so to  me an ethical leader tries to motivate people   towards pleasure instead of away from pain right  and then it has to go a little bit further than   that because we got to get the sadists out and  the you know people that think that pleasure   is winning at all costs no that's not what I'm at  you follow like in other words so it's almost like   to be you know I watched obi-wan the other  you know you got to be a jedi instead of   a sith right like you know like the desire to  accumulate power so that you can help other people   is good the desire to accumulate power at other  people's expense and just is not so good right so   I don't care what your theology is what anybody's  theology is don't lie don't cheat don't steal   right and call the rest whatever you want but  if you can lead people towards pleasure without   lying cheating or stealing or encouraging them to  lie cheat or steal you're probably closer to an   ethical leader than a boss a manager a director  a supervisor direct you know whatever you know   you can lead people to do stuff by coercion,  manipulation misinformation. You can um whatever   you know like the the powers of persuasion and  influence are you know they start neutral you   know you know aristotle logos ethos pathos right  now we're going to use logos pathos for good. Are we going to use it for not so good  yeah Robert Cialdini's the seven elements   of influence I mean fantastic that's right and you  originally created it so that you could be careful   of being wrongly influenced now of course lots of  people have used it to wrongly influence others. Yeah I mean you just it's it's unfortunate  it's unfortunate that powers of persuasion and   influence leaders they're all forms of leadership  right um and you know you hesitate to refer to   you know certain examples you know like it's  very sensitive you know country right now   uh and I guess that's always true the more I  study history people have been saying that for   years you want to you don't want to I don't want  to be divisive I don't I think red and blue two   wings are the same bird right but the idea is  that there are very very I'm interested in the   communication aspect the the rhetorical criticism  the logos the ethos the pathos the messaging   the the the play right which either side would  accuse the other of prey on emotions and what   we know about we you know we human motivation has  been studied right we know what people want right   so it seems to me that to lead people I either  got to tell them what they want is in jeopardy   and then they'll go do what I want them  to do if I can be credible and right   or I'll tell them what they want is a couple  steps away they just go do what I tell them to do   you know we know what people want health they  want relationships they want you know to earn   a good living they want entertainment they want  to give back they want excitement variety so if I   can tell you all of those things are going away  unless you do what I say I might be effective   and I can tell you those things are within your  grasp if you do what I say I might be effective   but what people want is known ethical leadership  tries to help oneself and others get what they   want without force manipulation, dishonesty,  lying, cheating, stealing, misinformation,   covering up cya cover your butt right ethical  leadership they're accountable ethical leaders   they put the work in ethical leaders they take  the time to get to know the people they're leading   ethical leaders want what's best for their people  whether it helps them individually or not ethical   leader knows that if I lose person a because this  other opportunity is right for person a then I'll   be a good enough leader I'll hire the new person a  and that'll be my fit instead of keeping somebody   in their chair because it serves me and I can't  afford to let somebody go and blah blah blah blah   blah so it's a selflessness it's a vulnerability  right love is the willingness to be vulnerable   so an ethical leader is willing to be vulnerable  and an unethical unethical leader is not. Yeah so where does integrity play into all that? Yeah well integrity is it gets us there it's  close but it's it in my experience it hasn't   done enough so when you you talked about it  earlier you notice it but I'm giving you the   word right you said the duality there's a duality  well left alone they're two separate units but   when we integrate internal and external now we're  more empowered to talk about motivation when we   look at it those two ways when we integrate  motivation with accountability we're more   empowered to get the results right when we bring  things together so everybody here's my thing Mike   integrity is one of these words like you  mentioned being a like parenting or driving   right where everybody thinks themselves to  be really good at it but everybody else sucks I'm an amazing driver I'm a fantastic driver  depending on what you mean by driving like   you're constantly cutting across the street  I'm really good at that really good at that. Right so like George Carlin had the great  line like why is everybody driving fast   to you a freaking idiot and everybody driving  slower you a freaking [ __ ] right like anybody   that's not doing so the autobiographical versus  biographical perspective and on and on so so what   I'm getting at is you know we as parents like  why are they doing that we criticize parents   who criticize drivers and what we usually  do when it comes to the word of integrity   is we only use it when we're accusing somebody  else of not having any or there's the snake   oil sales people out there that say oh you  want to buy from me because I have integrity   but we know that if we study their behavior  if they were willing to be counted we'd find   all kinds of out of integrities in their processes  or their whatever okay so the the what I'm trying   to do with the integrity game this is like it's a  parable it's a made-up story it's set to baseball   um because that's something that I'm integrating  into the book is my like a memoir kind of legacy   play for me there's characters in here that are  named after my kids with some of their qualities   and there's a character in here it's got a little  bit of all of us in there and anyway there's like   a season ticket holder and a rookie baseball  player and a hot dog vendor and a 10-point model   emerges through the story so I created a 10-point  model for integrity to make it accessible to make   it possible for people to up level their integrity  to increase their integrity for self and others. Because like driving people don't really know  how where they are on that is that the kind of   the idea behind it because how good of a driver I  am I'm either good or bad and integrity like I'm   either good at integrity or bad and you're saying  hey there's actually 10 different levels you got. well well 10 okay you're on to something first of  all let's we do want to get rid of the either or   thinking you're onto something beautiful here  Mike so I do when I'm doing the public speaking   version of this I'm available for keynotes and  right when I'm doing the public speaking version   of this I will start off and I'll ask how many  of you have integrity by show of hands right by   show hands or making noise or whatever how many  of you believe you have integrity and you can   imagine you could see it right now like 100%  of the audience raises their hand so I say all   right if you raised with your left please  switch to your right and repeat after me I   do do solemnly swear not to shoot the messenger  in 45 minutes because we're going to discuss   integrity and I hope to expand your understanding  of it I'm going to bet you know my keynote rating   you know the ratings that you'll give me I'll bet  my ratings that your understanding of integrity   can use a broadening. I'd love to be the guy  and I bet all of you are not going to raise   your hand so quickly when I ask at the end  how many of you believe you have integrity   some of you won't raise your hand at all some of  you will contemplate and really look within and   that's what I want to do. I want to make  it easy and fun to look within but first   what are we talking about? let's make sure  that we're talking about the same thing   right okay and you know this from a communication  perspective what I the meaning that I attach to a   word isn't necessarily the meaning that somebody  else will attach to the same word so driving could   be golf you got it it could be it could be driving  me crazy if you're you know like if you have kids   and if you're married everybody drives each other  crazy and the house got a lot smaller during   Covid and all that stuff driving driving driving  or like crashing a class right if you're a student   you know what that means if you're not a student  you're like is everybody okay right so terminology   you know anyway that's not the point that what I  want to make the point is people have a limited   understanding of integrity okay so when I ask what  is it I'm always going to get two answers mike and   you I'll see you nodding if this comes to mind  like something you might say but you imagine the   room right you've done public speaking you know  that there's extroverts that want to raise their   hand that they want to interact and as a speaker I  want to get somebody on the left side of the room   interacting I want to get somebody on the right  side of the room interacting I want to you know   find some anchors and some eye contact people  throughout and I want to learn some names and I   want to get that going on so hang on let's make  sure we're talking about the same thing what is   integrity and somebody you sir what's your name  joe thank you joe what is it right so one of the   answers I always get is be your word do what you  say you're going to do I like and then people will   not I'm like okay there's everybody we'll pin that  on the board we'll use it do what you say you're   going to do and somebody else when you say you're  going to do it that's like you know the real stern   you know ruler tapper you know the person with the  ruler that'll tap your knuckles if you're a minute   late but punctuality is a form of accountability  isn't it if you say eight o'clock that means eight   o'clock doesn't it not 801 802 803. right  okay so do what you say you're going to do   when you when you say you're going to do it that's  all what that's what being your word right okay   anybody else have an understanding of integrity  and somebody else will say like sue over here joe   and sue who will say do the right thing regardless  of who's watching do the same thing behave the   same way when nobody's watching as you would  when somebody is watching so I see you nodding   and that makes sense you've heard that before  so those are the two answers I get and I like   those because here's what we get to do I get to  do in both of those cases there is an integration. In one there's the integration coming  together of the word with the behavior   and on the other there's the behavior  with the value or the ethic or the moral   so in both cases there's integration a  coming together of one thing with another   and in both cases it's behavior that is  integrating with something else so now we   get to I asked get to ask people to write this  down behavior is the evidence of our integrity   it's not what we say it's not what I thought I was  gonna do what I hope to do like I didn't ask at   the beginning how many of you think yourselves to  be a good person I expect everybody to raise their   hand I think everybody at core is a good person  too right what I ask is how many of you believe   you have integrity and it's a trick question  and no I keep teasing a little bit my point is   in both cases there's an integration of coming  together with one thing with another in both   cases behavior is involved right but if I asked a  million people what's the definition of integrity   not one of the million answers would use the  word integration in their answer yet they   start with the same six letters I n e g so I want  people to focus on when we talk about integrity   it's not just oh they're a bad person they're out  of integrity or I'm a good person I have integrity   right right not just I like myself I have  integrity I don't like them they have no integrity   no no no I want you to focus on integration  what is coming together what are the things   that are coming together and we say out  of integrity when they're not together   we say in integrity when they are together so  what brings them together what keeps them together   yeah okay now so I want to start there  integration but now the other point is why   10 why 10 points on the model why not just  behavior with word or behavior with value   because mike if I said I was going to drink 18 I  always use this example if I said I was going to   drink 18 beers before the podcast today and then  I drank 18 beers before the podcast I'd be very   impressed well so would my liver but would I be  able to claim integrity I did what I said I was   going to do if I said I'm going to lay in bed for  five days straight and then I laid in bed for five   days straight would I be able to claim integrity  you're a man of your word man of your word but   that's not enough is what I'm getting at because  all I have to do is commit to nothing the rest   of my life and I'll be able to fool myself into  thinking that's some sort of integrity we want to   know the man with the word has a bigger plan for  me you understand so what I'm getting at is people   you can be smart alecky and say hey you're a man  every word yeah you can say you have integrity   but we all know that I can't claim integrity  by being lazy we can't claim integrity by   being destructive we can't claim integrity but not  advancing myself towards there's other things not   just word with behavior the other thing you know  do the same thing when nobody's watching that you   would when somebody's watching well quite honestly  there's some things I want to do in private   that I don't want to do in public and there are  some that are good I want to do in public I don't   want to do it in private you know what I mean like  you're like I don't want to cheer for my favorite   baseball team when I'm at pillow talk with my  wife there are other things I'd like to do during   pillow talk that I wouldn't do at a ball game and  I it's important it's on it's incumbent on me to   know which is which when is when right my point  is the the thanks for laughing what I setting   my audience up to understand is that it's it's a  good start nobody would argue do the same thing   regardless of who's watching or do the right thing  regardless of who's watching and be your word   nobody would argue with those things now how many  of us actually do the right thing how many of us   actually are our word just because nobody's  confronting us on it because people don't know how   to hold people accountable doesn't mean that we  have integrity just because nobody's calling us   out on it doesn't mean and so what I did and  I get I build this curiosity I hope what are   the I have a ten point model I have a 10-point  model that I these are the 10 things that I want   us to be bringing together in order to claim  the most integrity so this is my contribution   to the world of personal professional growth my  big audacious brand promise is that I have made it   tangible to improve one's integrity I made  it accessible to understand expand and prove   one's own or our teams or our culture in  an organization I believe sitting here with   you that this could be a one player game a  multiplayer game or an institutional game   and there's 10 points on the model and they're  not rocket science to understand the hard part is   treating the 10 points as question sets  answering the questions and making sure   the answers go together and then behaving as  much in alignment with those answers as possible   and it's a trick question because the choice  I think this is absolutely fantastic because   so much of the what you're talking about is that  behavior aspect which goes back to how we started   and even as we wrap up the way that we started  going back to motivation and accountability   there's there's behavior there how are you  motivating yourself how are you motivating   other people to behave and then accountability how  are you holding yourself accountable that's right   and are how do you hold others accountable for the  behavior that they go and really all of that is   part of that integrity and all of that is part  of being the type of leader that is an ethical   leader as well now this is absolutely fascinating  Jeffrey there there's obviously so many more areas   that you go and obviously you've written about it  you talk about it and I think that at this point   in time people are going man I want to I want  to know more than just motivation more than just   more than just accountability so where can  people find you where can people find a book   where can they get where can they hear more yeah  the book the integrity game is available on amazon   uh as a matter of fact I'm proud to say that when  we released it it got to number one among best uh   number one bestseller among new releases in its  category uh and in in education and certification   so we are going to be doing certified integrity  game coaches certified integrity game speakers   there's a curriculum behind the book so  the book can be found at   uh I'm sorry on amazon and then  if you want to play and if you want to get two   complimentary coaching sessions or learn about  the 90-day challenge that's coming down later in   the year or anything like that you can submit you  get into our database but otherwise I'm just a guy   my name is my name's jeff jeff my last name is  klubeck k-l-u-b-e-c-k a simple search you'll find   me connect with me send me a message and I welcome  you with my open digital arms I love it and   we'll of course put that all in our show notes on  YouTube and our plan have shown awesome and people   can find that but jeff it's been fun man fast  and furious lots of content there for people to   go back and re-watch or pause as they're going up  if they're driving but to pause and think through   and no really thank you so much for sharing this  these these are some great things for us to grab   a hold of for today thank you for having me mike  and to all of our listeners thank you so much   as well thank you for liking subscribing sharing  commenting take a moment pass this on to somebody   else look up Jeffrey check out his book it's all  part of helping you advance in your leadership   in your life until next time this has been  Mike Acker with Jeffrey Klubeck from advance. Thanks for listening to advance with mike acker  a podcast designed to provide an edge for leaders   through improving practical leadership skills  and increasing confidence in speaking mike is a   best-selling author and business owner who has  helped many leaders increase their skills and   their confidence propelling them to new heights  in their personal and professional endeavors   join an incredible group of professionals  taking the steps to become better leaders   at don't forget to rate  review and subscribe so you never miss an episode! you