ADVANCE: Take Your Next Step with Mike Acker

Ep 21 | Shaping the Future of Business through Employee Experience & Feedback with Michael Yinger [ Season 2 ]

July 25, 2022 Mike Acker
ADVANCE: Take Your Next Step with Mike Acker
Ep 21 | Shaping the Future of Business through Employee Experience & Feedback with Michael Yinger [ Season 2 ]
Transcript

This is an interesting time to hire and to  be hired so today we're going to dive into   this area of talent acquisition  and really putting your   best foot forward dive into this  with Mike Acker and Michael Yinger Welcome to advance with Mike Acker the  podcast designed to help entrepreneurs   business leaders and professionals alike  break through barriers by improving their   practical leadership skills and  increasing confidence in speaking   your host is a best-selling author executive coach  and founder of the advanced public speaking school   and advantage publishing group two companies  dedicated to providing an edge for leaders   find out more about mike at mikeacker.com  now here's your host Mike Acker Michael thank you so much for being  on the program with me today welcome   mike I'm happy to be here thank you so the  whole goal here is to help people advance   advance in their career advance their  understanding in advance and I think you   have a great insight into an area that a lot  of people want to know more about where is the   whole area of talent acquisition going in the  next several years and how does it affect them? yeah a lot of changes primarily driven  as we might imagine coming out of covid   companies are having to be more focused on what  the individuals want and they're taking that into   account so this is still really a you might say  a buyer's market or it's certainly a job seekers   market and this this is likely going to continue  for quite some time according to all the stats   that I see there's still large numbers of people  quitting. There still is a huge gap between the   jobs that are out there and the number of people  that are available to fill those jobs and so   talent acquisition is going to have to be really  focused on being presenting to the people what   it is that they want to get from the company being  very focused around that now technology is helping   because it's it's taking uh improving some of the  productivity aspects of it and it's still going   to come down to that people relationship that  talent exhibition is going to have to face because   more and more there's the recognition that this  whole conversation around bringing somebody into   an organization it's really sales conversation  you're as a person in talent acquisition what   are you doing to convince that person that this is  something that they want to buy they want to buy   this job they want to come and work for you and so  the that whole human relationship creating rapport   connecting with people very important  and will be for the next several years. you know what you made me think of is just  recently someone came knocking on our door   and said hey um would you  be up to selling your house. you're a real estate acquisition right  no yeah yeah we are not interested and   so my wife and I were thinking about  it and then we thought to ourselves   well if we were interested this is the  value that we would place on our house   regardless of whether it's the current market  value this is the value that we would put on it   and there is an essence with in essence that  right now people need to know their value.  yeah and that way they're ready for  those conversations any thoughts on that? yeah it's a good analogy and by the way I got one  of those letters yesterday so exactly what you're   talking about it just tells you where real estate  is although we're not we're not going to go into   real estate you have to know what you want and you  and quite frankly as a job seeker you need to know   that the company that you're talking to is the one  that's gonna provide those things to you because   the the person who's the recruiter is gonna  they're gonna pitch you on whatever it is that   they have to offer you've got to be prepared to  say well okay that's fine except that I want a   company that has a vision or I want to know that  I'm going to make a difference in my community or   whatever it is or I want to work from home  you got to have a good understanding of   of what your needs and wants are because you will  have choices. One you'll have choices within the   offer that's being presented to you potentially  but also there are different companies that you   could go to work for that might provide those  things that are more important there was a recent   survey came out and said actually um salary is no  longer near the top that people are looking more   for belonging aspects they're looking for social  consciousness. You know so those kinds of things   have come crept into the conversation but as a  job seeker you have to be prepared with what it is   that you want and what it is that you will accept  when it comes time for uh to consider an offer. I think it's so interesting because I one of the  things I do as a as a communication coach when I'm   working with people I help people get interviews  and prepare for interviews at a very high level   and one person came in and he was he was  actually just focused on the money aspect   and his personality and his  mannerisms is a while back now   match that kind of modality if you know what  I mean in other words he was very hard skill   oriented versus soft skill oriented I'm  changing some of the specifics here but   it's very interesting you're talking about not  only the talent acquisition needs to come in here   with people skills and not just the hard facts  but really it's give and take it's both sides. yeah absolutely and and you know that the  reality is that if you wanted to flip burgers or   you know shovel chicken you could get a job  tomorrow anywhere the good jobs the kind of   jobs that people say they want. You still have  to work at it I talked to a CEO not long ago who   was advertising for chief operating officer he  got a thousand applicants so you've got to know   one that you're capable of doing the job and  what is it that you expect from that company   when the time comes to be in the conversation.  it's uh yeah you you hit it right on the head   it there's it's a balancing act it's a two-way  street company's got to have the right sort of   opportunities and you got to know what it is  you want to be prepared to talk about that. Yeah very interesting well Michael as  we dive into this topic some more tell   us a little bit about who you are and  why you're a good person to talk about   this aspect of talent acquisition and  growth and some other areas we'll get into? I've been in talent acquisition now for about 20  years and had worked for a number of companies   primarily in the in the outsourced recruiting  space I've done just about every job that you   can do I'd I've been in sales, I've been in  client delivery, I've been in product management   sourcing, uh the whole gamut and recently I took  on being a co-founder for an HR tech startup   we have a product that evaluates and ranks  resumes making it easier for the recruiter   taking some time out of the process etc. so all those things really has me see   the industry as a whole. where the industry's  going, but also see it from both sides what you   know what what's the job seeker side but also  what's the company side who's looking for that   whether you're in sourcing your, whether you do  your all your talent acquisition internally, or   whether you've outsourced it to some company there  are some common things that you need to look at. I think to be successful in terms  of of uh uh talent acquisition as a   process I think one of the ones that really is  important is the whole aspect of hiring bias   and I mean we're all aware of what's going  on with a friend's tv show right and the the   uh the one of the writers is like oh my gosh I  didn't hire very diverse group and she was biased   towards a certain group just because of the  1990s and where she was at in that point in time   but now she's like I would do things  different so everybody's being aware   of this and wanting to make sure that they  don't have a hiring bias towards anything. so talk to us about how does hiring bias   affect us and the long-term effects  of hiring bias in organizations? I look at hiring buyers in in  two ways there's explicit virus   bias where you're only hiring people because  they look and sound a certain way and that's   the way you're doing things. Then  there's the unconscious bias where   you look around and realize that everybody  looks like you and you didn't intend it   that way but that's the way it turned out. so  there's you know the unconscious aspect to it   the a lot of the statistics that are out there now  look at when you talk about the long-term impact   of of bias in the in the hiring process they don't  look so much at the companies that exhibit bias.   What they do is they look at the companies that  have exhibited this tendency towards inclusion   and diversity DENI and what they found is that if  you've got a diverse workforce. One your employees   are more engaged because employees prefer to work  in a in an environment that is more like their   society or their geography that they're just more  & more comfortable. Two they're more productive   at a two and three times clip there's better  cash flow and there's better profitability   so that's what companies get when they  choose to be diverse and they work towards   mirroring society mirroring  their customers and so forth.   Companies so you could look at it the opposite  direction companies that don't practice like that   they tend to get uh they tend to get a reputation  and so that reputation impacts not only their   customers but also the people who apply for  jobs so they don't do as well so there's   there's clearly documented evidence that shows  engaging in a diverse process in looking for a mix   of employees that have the skills and also mirror  your society that you're working in is a positive   thing in terms of organizational performance. That's you know it that those aren't my stats   those are the stats that are out there that  they're readily available and then just a question   of you know what do you want to do about it and  you can you know technology can help a little bit   except that you got to be careful with the  technology because who built the technology   and how's the technology thinking about what it  you know the input that it gets right because   the AI systems will just talk about artificial  intelligence for a minute they get their results   or they they they learn based on what they're  told what the feedback is and so you can program   unconsciously AI to be picking things that you  maybe you you didn't want to do. so you gotta you   gotta balance that and even if the AI is finely  tuned and it is finding the appropriate resources   and they're they're coming in there's still  probably a person interviewing them and that's   often where the breakdown is and so a company  has to look not just at technology but also   their internal processes to ensure that they're  not perpetuating unconscious bias by the the   nature of who's doing the conversation with the  candidates and who's making the hiring decision. It's nowadays it's the recognized  bias can be borderline racism   like yeah I'm just bringing people in who are  fitting this or sexism or whatever isn't right   so I could have just an ism attached to it but  is that unconscious I'm sure that when they   were looking for the six actors  for friends they weren't thinking   we just need this type of group right here.  yeah. but it was an unconscious bias towards   the industry at that point in time so how do we  fight that how how do we overcome that and I think   that's that's easy for us as parents with our kids  it's easy for us as employers it's easiest for us   employees there's unconscious biases I grew  up in Mexico so I love speaking Spanish I'm   always drawn to people who speak Spanish there's  a bias inside of me that I want to speak Spanish   and if I'm hiring two different people one  happens to be bilingual and one happens to just   speak English I'm biased towards that even if it  doesn't need Spanish speaking so how do we how do   we fight that how do we what do we do with that? Well, there are two elements to it I think one is   you have to have a plan that you're working  towards uh we had a client several years ago   and our objective as the outsource  outsource company was to present a slate   of candidates with a certain percentage of  demographics and they came to us after they   did some analysis of their people and said well  you know we're not hitting our diversity goals   and so we together looked at the process and we  realized we were presenting them in excess of   their request in terms of a mixture of candidates  somebody else was making a decision on who to hire   and so that we were able to pinpoint that it  wasn't the input process it was the selection   process. So you have to pay attention to the  numbers you have to have a plan. so you have to   know what you're shooting for yeah there's another  side of there's another side of this is okay say   you're you're at a certain demographic today  and you want to be at a different demographic   are you going to fire people so that you can hire  people to replace them that meet your demographic   are you growing enough that you can hire and and  grow to the number that you want to achieve that   you know there's those kinds of things you have  to think about but then the the the other side of   it is you have to provide training to the people  who are making the final decision to help them   recognize just what you said help them recognize  that they have an in an inherent bias and how do   you get all get over it you can do it through  different kinds of interview techniques   uh you can do but clearly you got to be measuring  not only what you're trying to accomplish but how   you're accomplishing it so that everybody has  visibility to it there's a lot of commitment to   this. It can't just be you know handing down you  know here's your here's your goal go go for it see   ya because it's going to take time and effort to  get past those unconscious bias to where people   are really looking at the candidates who can  do the job and they're not concerned with how   those candidates look. That's the journey's  never over because you know the the sort of   societal mix is going to change over time it's  it's paying attention to it and putting the you   know the right emphasis where it needs to be so  that people are paying attention to their bias   you know sometimes it's as simple as you just look  around and realize everybody looks like you well. You know and quite frankly that could be geography  we had a client had they had a call center in one   of the northeastern states and they were concerned  about the the the demographic mix of their   call center and we said to them well you got to  relocate somewhere where you're going to find   the people that you say you want to hire because  you're in a neighborhood where they're all the   same. That's you know they're those kinds  of things very real issues right if you   if you want to have a diverse workforce and you  locate somewhere where there is no diversity   well how are you going to get a diverse  workforce in that kind of an environment   are you are you a you know a hospitality company  and so you have a lot of certain demographics   particularly at the entry level and so your  overall numbers look really great but then   you start looking at the layers. oh yeah and you  know it so you got to pay you got to pay attention   this is this is why these these de and I jobs the  people whose entire focus is DENI they're getting   to be pretty significant in the organization  to help the senior leadership really understand   where they are how they can get there because  of what we talked about a few minutes ago   the very real results that come from  having a good diverse organization. Very interesting, yeah so there's the great  results that come from it and very interesting   you have the numbers there and I'm sure that  there's some places that you can point people to   at the end as well on that and then you have that  process and I love the plan aspect you got to know   what your plan you're not going to get something  that you're not going to fall into success most   time right and then you're going to have just  that training to be aware very interesting now   talk to me as a person who is looking for a job  whether I'm Hispanic female whether I this or that   what should I be doing because if I what if I what  if I'm worried that I don't fall into the bias   of the higher what can I do to  increase my chances of success? one of the keys is the the sort of the  onus is on the company to write a job   description that's that's encompassing that's  inviting on the part of the job seeker pay   attention to the job description and I mean I  just put it bluntly try not to get turned off   you know if it's all he pronouns and  you're a woman who's applying for the job   you know do you want the job now this  might be this might be a little trigger   for you that says this is this might tell  you a little bit about what this company is   so pay attention to the job description and  you know in some ways it's you know be broad   in your consideration of where you're looking  to work but do your research. It you know   it doesn't take much to go in and find out some  of the the public stances of companies and is   that a company you want to work for? Are they  supportive of these kinds of goals? Do are they   supportive of the community that you represent? it isn't it isn't that hard to find out   a company's brand these days uh by doing a little  bit of digging that's gonna that's gonna help you   in terms of making the right decision in  terms of making yourself visible the the   challenge there is it you know sophisticated  companies know how to target demographics   by where they place their jobs or where they're  looking for people and you know you want to make   sure that you're well positioned and those  kinds of things but you know some companies   are still just they're you know just sort of  blanket they're not paying particular attention   to certain communities and so you just you if  if you want to be considered across the board   you just got to have yourself out there in in all  the places where people are looking for employees. Very interesting yeah I like that don't don't  pigeon yourself don't pigeonhole yourself   in the process and and put yourself out there  and do that research above and beyond knowing   that value aspect knowing the market value  let's switch over to something a little bit.  why is focusing on employee experience feedback  going to be really the way forward in business? There's a whole field of thought around employee  experience it's another area that really is   coming to the forefront in in HR if employees are  having a good experience they're more productive   I mean it's it's really as simple as that part  of that is the environment some of the stuff   we've been talking about and part of it also can  be the technology. uh You can you can be the most   encompassing um embracing inclusive environment  but you put your people in front of a screen with   14 different systems and none of them talk to  each other and they're having to move data back   and forth they're going to get turned off it's  going to be a bad employee experience. So there   are a number of different ways to deal with that  you know are you open to people working from home   once in a while that's part of employee experience  and so you know I'm not I'm not suggesting that   there's there's a particular way to be to achieve  good employee experience the way the the the way   you should move forward is you should be talking  to your employees what is it they're looking for   I was talking to a CEO of a small company who  during covid had taken advantage of the real   estate situation and had bought a new facility  and had built it all out and was so excited to   welcome everybody back to the office and they  said no thank you ma'am they wouldn't come back   to the office she didn't talk to him she didn't  she didn't understand that some of these people   had moved out of state they were still doing their  job but they they found a cheaper place to live   they were they had had to make arrangements around  child care. Yet the key to employee experience is   you really have to be talking to your employees  to understand what is it they want you know maybe   maybe they they don't want time off maybe they  want more money that you know every environment is   going to be different because the kind of culture  you've created the kind of people that you have   working for you it's talking to your employees  first so he gets back to the plan it and then make   a plan that achieves those ends. Because that's  what's going to improve the employee experience. Yeah I love that you're you're saying talk to them  please because there are some generalizations that   are going out there hey people want this  people want right that but your people   might not want that I mean think about this as  you're listening to this as you're tuning in   to watching what is it you want that is actually  maybe something that the organization you work for   does not provide? and what is something  they provide that you don't care for?  for example I know somebody who  works for a company that is very   children-centric but they don't have  kids and they don't have plans for kids   so they do all this stuff for kids and they're  like that doesn't really bother I mean I don't   really care and then I know another person he runs  a company and he said look we're not going to do   any of the social conscious  we're just going to pay you   and we're going to pay you well and you go to the  social cost consciousness. So if you want to come   work for a company that's saved in the the turtles  or whatever it might be that's not us but we'll   pay you well and you go do that very interesting  to understand what the company wants and what the   employee wants and really that conversation  which is really just a communication issue. It's communication it's it you have  to it's asking the question right   I think if nothing else what covet in particular  has taught us is you just can't assume.  That you know there's there's  no benefit in assuming because   you know what's what's the chances that you're  going to assume correctly if you haven't done   some research if you haven't had that conversation  with your folks to understand what it is they're   looking for it's just and it's so simple you know  you you have some town halls you do some surveys   you're gonna find out pretty quick what people  want and and then and then you can decide how   can you meet it do you want to meet it I mean  that you don't know that you might you might be   throwing money at some solution that nobody cares  about I mean your example is very interesting   we don't we're gonna pay you and then  you can use your own time to go do   your causes and we're gonna and we're gonna pay  you more you know we're gonna pay you better   than you would get if you went somewhere else  where you had this built into your organization   and that might work for some people yeah  absolutely but you gotta ask the question yeah. I thought that was really good I mean that kind of  thing would work for me because my wife and I are   invested and we would like to be thinking about  where we want to be involved in the community so   puts an onus back on us so for me I didn't  work for them but for me I like that you   know once I had an organization that did an  extra day event for their staff and it's like   they mentioned something good but I was like  oh that's like time away from my family yeah yeah and your cause may be different than someone  else's cause yeah yeah you know it's it's uh   there's nothing wrong with having that sort of  mission-based component to your culture it's   you know one you better be upfront about it  so that people understand that when they're   interviewing with you but two it should also be  reflective of what your current employees want.  If you want to maintain a good employee experience  okay so we have people who are listening and   watching right now who are thinking okay that  makes sense I think yeah employee experience   okay I'm on board I'm with this what do we  let's talk to the two different groups here   we have managers and we have leaders we have CEOs  we have business leaders who are listening so what   are some simple systems that they can put in  place to get this and then on the other side   of the employee how can they provide this  even if there isn't a system to give it? Interesting in terms of the first group the key  is understanding what it is the employees want.   You can't put anything in into place until you  understand what they want in the first place. Right what's their system to get that like old  little comment boxes probably don't work so well? yeah well there are a number of  fairly sophisticated survey tools   that that make it easier there are companies that  specialize in gathering this kind of information   I mean you go out and hire a consultant there  are consultants in the employee experience space   will come in and they'll look at your systems  and they'll look at what you're doing and and   give you a readout all of which includes  a component of talking to the employees   but simple survey is the place to start  depends on how big you are right if you got   50 people do a survey in google right you know and  and if you got more than that then maybe you need   to go to SurveyMonkey or or maybe you need to go  to something that's a little more sophisticated.  All those those kind of tools exist and then they  can you know give you a readout on where you are   so that's that's what you've got to do then you  then you've got to make sure that you've got   the wherewithal to actually put those suggestions  into place. You're going to have to evaluate them   you're going to have to decide which ones do you  want to do and which ones you don't and then how   do you pay for it all those kinds of things are  going to come from the senior senior leadership   then at you know the second group you know how  do you how do you get people to take advantage   of some of these things was that was that  your question that's kind of what I heard Mike Yeah for the employee so if you're an  employee and there is no one's asking you? yeah yeah well so so that's an interesting  interesting challenge if no one's asking you   well then how much does it matter to you you know  you can always vote with your feet and go find   something else. or you can raise it up and see  what the organization is willing to do are they   willing to take this on and at least again begin  asking the question. That's the how strongly are   you invested in whatever this particular change  is. um and you know you hear anecdotes of people   who you know uh the the one I shared about that  you know no one would come back into the office   you know there's been some large companies I'm not  going to pick on tesla but I'm going to say tesla   put out an announcement not too long ago that  everybody's going to come back into the office   it wasn't exactly what he said it was more all  of our factory people have to be in the factory   because that's where work gets done is in the  factory and so if you work and support somebody   in the factory I expect you to be in the office as  much as they're in the factory because that's how   I want to see support well it may be a tenable  position it might work for for their culture.  But you know you the the employees then have  the choice uh Virginia again this is not a   political thing 300 people in the Virginia  state government quit over the last few weeks   the predominant number of those who gave a reason  for resigning said because you're making us come   back into the office well but maybe maybe to  do the work you need to come into the office   and so that's not the right job for you. you know there are all those all those   kinds of things are at odds and it's are you  having the communication in the first place.  Are you having the conversations so that people  understand why you're doing what you're doing how   it impacts them and then what their choices are  and it may be that people choose to leave because   you're going in a direction that isn't the way  that they want to go well that's that's okay too. A lot of this is is like dating in high school  kind of talking and figuring that out and I  really say like dating in the younger stages   because it's it's not life long there's like  not as often when you don't have kids at that   point in time most time right and so there's not  as much overall responsibility and you can pick   up and leave a lot of times in these different  jobs especially if you position yourself well   so that's my encouragement to people even as  you listen to this is position yourself well   so that if something doesn't line up  you're able to move on to something else   you know I was just talking to somebody recently  Michael that I'm thinking about this I'm keeping   everything vague as I was talking to this  person there's their experience is not fantastic   and they're not loving it and there's not an  opportunity to really share that with their   employer and I said well because you're relatively  new in this role stick around for a while develop   your value develop your value develop your  soft skills develop your communication   do your best so that you can get a recommendation.  Then when you cross that threshold of   I was talking to one person it's about  about a year you don't want to be flitting   around a whole bunch of less one-year jobs  a year and a half then your value is higher   and then you can go choose someplace that  employee experience matches what you want. I like the the sort of coaching  that you're giving I think that   sometimes organizations grow on people  sometimes in a negative way right you   know long enough and you realize that you know  this this was a mistake and I should have left   and you know it may be that you know you're  in there you were looking for a certain thing   and it isn't they don't have exactly  what you have but you know you could   the dating analogy is not a bad one there's  a certain maturation of the relationship that   has to go on because remember in those first  conversations everybody's on their best behavior   yeah they're telling only the stories that  you want to hear and that's certainly true   of the recruiting process of talent acquisition  you know the the uh by and large the person   talking to the candidates going to be telling them  all the good things that the company's doing and   all this and that and the person answering  questions all it it everybody's really on   best behavior in those first stages and it if  it's a long-term relationship you'll find out   and you know again you don't want to flit  around you know that's that's also some good   advice but you know give it a chance maybe  it'll work out maybe it'll be it'll be okay   that you know you're getting you know what  you need as to a certain extent and you can   pick up the balance somewhere else or maybe  it's just it's just untenable that this is   just not the outfit for you to be in  okay make that decision and move on. Right and and make that decision fairly soon if  you know you're not going to date that person   don't go on the second one. Yeah that's right that's right and so it's not I  mean and and that's where research comes in right   once once you've made the commitment of joining  a company a lot of your options go away you can't   you one you you've perhaps lost the ability  to ask questions that you could ask during   the recruitment process yeah but but two there is  that whole thing that you know you're somewhere   for three weeks and you realize this isn't the  company for you maybe you should have done some   research before to tell you that um because  leaving after three weeks is you know it's not   a good thing it's going to make getting your next  gig that much harder you know it's it's you and   are you really thinking about where your career is  going if you're making decisions you know sort of   on that short-term basis right right there there's  a little bit of that take taking into account   it's your career and let's not let's not kid  ourselves the most altruistic company in the   world doesn't exist to make you successful in your  career if that happens then that's a a win-win.   Companies exist to enrich their shareholders  and service their customers and make money   we'll leave the not-for-profits out of this  conversation for a minute because that that gets   a little more complicated although not-for-profits  have a mission and their objective is to achieve   their mission you got to take accountability for  what is it going to take for me to be successful   what is it going to take for me to be happy and if  this isn't where it is then I need to go find it   somewhere else. That's that you know companies  are you know they they're not architected to   help you. yeah you have to be prepared to  help yourself and it doesn't mean that help   isn't available. I don't want to be too  negative a picture but it's it really is   it's beholden on me as the individual to  take charge of what happens in my life. I love I love that everybody needs to hone in  on what Michael just said taking charge I've   even realized that at different times that victim  mentality comes up to me it comes into my mind and   you know I'm just a victim of the circumstance or  whatever might come up but it really doesn't gift   you doesn't get you anywhere and that take charge  don't wait for somebody to else to find you the   perfect job go put in the time I know one guy he  really wanted a specific job at a certain income   level and he treated it like a job and so for  eight nine hours a day he worked on getting a   job and sure enough he was able to land a great  one now let's pivot right here because I think   it's really interesting at the very beginning  I said who are you to speak into the situation   and you mentioned a startup and I know that you're  doing consulting for people as well and you're   working with people so this is your area but What is it that you're trying to accomplish?   and why is this why is this  needed in today's marketplace? We have a tool today that looks at the resume  and evaluates it based on uh objective criteria.   and it does it quickly so the the intent of the  tool is to improve productivity. Particularly   at the front end of the recruiting process uh  there there are still situations where jobs   people get hundreds and hundreds of jobs I  talked to one talent acquisition leader uh they   were recruiting a recruiter that's what they want  they needed a recruiter they posted the job in 36   hours they got 700 applicants and and then they  said and then they cut off the the job posting   and I said well what'd you do then she said three  of us four weeks evaluating all 700 resumes I said   okay well what's wrong with that picture and  she said you know we probably wanted number 701   and that's the way most of the tools work  today you know you get you get some people   in you evaluate them you go forward you don't  have time to evaluate all of them or if you   are evaluating them. particularly if you're  doing it in some sort of a manual perspective   you might look at the first 10  candidates the same remember   recognizing that resumes are all different and and  how people talk about their careers all different   so the first ten but then the second ten are they  the same as the first ten and by the time you get   to 50 are you even paying attention to the same  things as you're paying at the beginning well we   eliminate all that we give you a an objective  process to evaluate all the resumes oh you get   another hundred let's just add them into the mix  and now evaluate all of them again oh you go to   the hiring manager the hiring manager says you  know there's something else I'd really like to do.   Re-evaluate them all again so we're our focus is  making is is enabling the recruiter to spend more   time with those conversations with the candidates  with those conversations with the hiring manager   so that they know they're looking for the right  thing and they know they're talking to the to   the right people and they're not spending  all their time just shuffling through paper That's good because it seems like I mean I've  never I've never posted a job that had that many   applicants but I posted jobs for people and I've  had a couple hundred applicants yeah sure and I   mean I my criteria I was actually working with one  of my clients and he was scaling his business and   so I uh jumped on as a provisional consultant  helping him hire and so we posted and we got   I don't know I probably went through 100 but there  was I had a selection criteria that easily made it   get through about 50 and just throw 50 away and  then I went down to narrow so it wasn't super   difficult in that type of situation I didn't have  to have 50 interviews but it would be interesting   to have something do that for me especially  if I was doing a lot more um on the flip side   how do I get noticed out of 700 resumes I don't  know if that's your in your room it's relevant? Yeah no no it's it's totally relevant that  the way you get noticed is you actually have   things on your resume which reflect what the job  description asks for now I'm not suggesting that   you add things that you don't have that and you  know it it's and and and so if they're if they're   five criteria and you meet four of them does  it mean you're not going to be considered no   it doesn't mean that and if your resume doesn't  speak to the job description then why are you   even applying I'll give you an example I posted  a customer success director job I wanted somebody   with experience with SAS software and in the um  recruiting space and they understood applicant   tracking systems the most qualified person I got  had been selling lawn care services for nine years   so I had no qualified applicants that was that  was the bottom line. but you know here's this   person who who you know has had nothing to do with  software maybe they were using excel in their job   has had nothing to do with customer success and  yet they felt like they were qualified to post. So   you know don't don't kid yourself there will  be people who have the qualifications you can   see this on LinkedIn I know not everybody's  on LinkedIn not all jobs are on LinkedIn   and LinkedIn will tell you your top 25 in  terms of what's on your LinkedIn profile   and what the job is asking for or your top  50 or you're a top candidate if if your   experience doesn't reflect what the job is looking  for you're going to get overlooked whether it's   by a computer that's doing an evaluation or it's  by a person that's doing the same thing doing an   evaluation that's probably the the single most  critical thing beyond that it's can you make a   connection with somebody at the organization that  might get you noticed if you don't know anybody.  You probably can figure out who the recruiter is  and certainly you can with LinkedIn you can figure   out who posted the job and just make a connection  that's going to raise your profile because of the   at least there'll be some name recognition it's  this a process getting a good job you got to do   some work you got to put in some time you talked  about a guy who would spend eight nine hours   looking for you know to find the right job eight  nine hours a day okay yeah you know if you've got   certain things that you're looking for you're  gonna have to not only go out and find where   that exists but but make sure that you really  do match what it is that they're looking for. If if you don't care for a job then you you can  do that whole just apply right right just send   this one right over here I've done that before  but a long time but a couple years ago I saw a   job that was interesting I had a I had a resume  uploaded Michael and I didn't really need the job   I didn't really care but it was just like well if  it happens it happens click apply and sure enough   no interest you know the the automated software  picked up that it was not a good fit and moved   me out which is a good thing but I think that's a  great reason to do what you're doing there are a   lot of people who are just click apply click apply  yeah there are and your software is going to take   out of those 700 it's going to limit it down to  more relevant ones and I think that's fantastic.  The the other thing that you as you're talking  one of the things that I've done I'm not in   a spot where I'm looking for jobs so I don't  have this right now but is that master resume   where it has every single thing it's you know  normal resume should be three pages max two pages   really and the uh but have a master resume that's  six pages long that has all the different skills   and then you apply and then you take out certain  aspects and you plug and play that's that's just   my kind of feedback I've given a couple people  is that something you resonate with as well. Absolutely absolutely right it's it it's probably  the simplest where the alternative was you create   a resume for every job that comes up which is  which is difficult right right it's you know if   you have everything in one place it's a lot easier  to take out the things that aren't necessary   than it is to try and add in the things that that  you forgot to put in the first time did you forget   or are you just adding in things we had we had  just a short story we had we had one resume and   and what our our system does is it picks up the  you know it's looking for things in the resume and   this person scored very well in this one area and  so I have a feature that I can click on it and   it'll show me where it appears in the resume and  I couldn't find these words anywhere on the resume   that that we were looking for the skill set  there was this little tiny green box down at   the bottom which is usually it highlights it in  green when it shows that I took the resume out   I highlighted all the text and I  changed the color of the text to black   what this person had done is they had pasted  their resume on top of the job description that   way they had all the words covered well you know  systems are going to figure that out I'm sorry   you know oh that is hilarious trying to trying  to you know weave your way through and okay good   good I hope I don't give anybody any ideas  because it doesn't work it doesn't work That's like that whole classic thing I don't  know if um people try to do more on websites   but same thing you know be a black background  and they'll put black font there so that SEO   pixel is yeah exactly and and the the spiders are  too smart for that yeah yeah yeah it worked out   they're looking for relevance they're looking  for relevance they're looking for proximity   all those kinds of things it's uh you know it's  an interesting game that people think they need   to play you know that is fascinating don't do  that though so that's don't do that everybody  Maybe you shouldn't be applying for the job if  you if you got to play that kind of a game maybe   you should be looking to look at doing something  a little different that's you know simple advice That's a cool feature though that you've added in  your program that click here show me where that is   because they see it within the context exactly  right executive communication coach oh that   was with this and this and this oh exactly team  leader oh that was a long time ago or whatever   yes so hey Michael this has been so fun where  can people find you where can people find more   some of the resources and such  that you're talking about here? sure I'm pretty easy to find email is Michael  resumesiv.com and our website is resumeciv.com   pretty easy to find on the web I'm on LinkedIn  twitter Facebook mike Yinger easy to find as well   and happy to connect with people and and answer  questions and see where the conversation goes   perfect and we'll put that of course in  the show notes in the YouTube notes as well   and is it S-I-V or how do you  suppose how are you supposed to sieve I was going with like civilization sid  meier from the 1990s so I was like civ dates my video game playing day when I think  of well you know there's something anyway   hey Michael this has been great though really  appreciate thanks for being on the show   thank you very much and to all our listeners and  to our viewers thank you so much for tuning in   with advanced with mike acker and Michael Yinger.  Thank you so much for taking the time to do so   take a moment like subscribe share comment  pass on and until next time advance. Thanks for listening to advance with Mike Acker  a podcast designed to provide an edge for leaders   through improving practical leadership skills  and increasing confidence in speaking mike is a   best-selling author and business owner who has  helped many leaders increase their skills and   their confidence propelling them to new heights  in their personal and professional endeavors   join an incredible group of professionals  taking the steps to become better leaders   at connect.steps2advance.com don't forget to rate  review and subscribe so you never miss an episode!