INTRODUCTION TO EPISODE 22
Learning how to launch, grow, and successfully run your business? In today's episode of the Advance Podcast, learn the secrets to exceptional entrepreneurship from athlete-turned-entrepreneur Patrick Parker, who runs not one but five successful businesses!
Over the last five years, Patrick has built out five different software companies, two of which are now venture-backed, and all of those are generating over a million dollars in revenues. Patrick's entrepreneurial journey started as a side gig and eventually turned into full-time business, beginning with a staffing company. When it first scaled to a million in revenue, he took 30% of the profits from that, launched a software company and grew that to 3 and a half million in revenue. Gradually, he's built and scaled many other businesses and has scaled them suitably to attain meaningful revenue.
In today's episode, join Mike as he interviews Patrick about entrepreneurship lessons from his amazing journey and learn to manage your time in a way that helps you grow financially.
EPISODE 22 SUMMARY & HIGHLIGHTS
What did Patrick’s athletics background teach him about leadership now that he’s in the business space? : 2:15
Patrick reveals that his athletics background prepared him greatly for the business space - helping him know everything from being coached, the ability to encourage and lift up teammates, to dedication and consistency and hard work and development of his personal skills. In his words, 'Going from being a player to still being involved with athletics and becoming a coach, and helping other people develop their skill sets, is exactly what leadership is about'.
How does Patrick go about managing five companies?
Patrick finds it a matter of prioritizing his time. His secret is perhaps being intentional and focused with each company. He also prepares a call list every night – a list of the things that he has to do in order for everything to continue moving forward.
Patrick believes strongly in not falling prey to a comparison mindset. The problems only get bigger that way. Patrick's way of working is starting small, staying grounded, and continuing to imitate or mimic that across all his businesses.
Another thing he does is document the lessons learned – documenting what works and what doesn't and building frameworks and processes that make your business easier.
Patrick also works on his focus. He uses time blocking to protect his time and spend his energy and effort in the right direction. He also uses focus tools on his phone to temporarily block the apps distracting him from work.
Patrick’s blueprint for growing a profitable business: 12:47
What's the purpose of a flywheel?: 25:17
Patrick’s closing advice for you: 32:04
(Full shownotes at https://connect.stepstoadvance.com)
CONNECT WITH PATRICK
CONNECT WITH MIKE
I love listening to people who are very successful in different areas and they're able to translate that success into yet other areas so today Patrick Parker former athlete who then went on to start and run five different companies all making revenue of over a million each so check this out on what to do when you want to translate principles into greater success Welcome to advance with Mike Acker the podcast designed to help entrepreneurs business leaders and professionals alike break through barriers by improving their practical leadership skills and increasing confidence in speaking your host is a best-selling author executive coach and founder of the advanced public speaking school and advantage publishing group two companies dedicated to providing an edge for leaders find out more about mike at mikeacker.com now here's your host Mike Acker Patrick thank you so much for being on the program with me today I'm looking forward to talking with you absolutely mike thanks for having me so you were a athlete through growing up and then really went big time and had some big dreams and then you went to leadership but tell us a little bit about your athletic journey and then some of the things that taught you about leadership so so growing up my father was a college all-American so basketball was something that was always in the cards for me yeah I guess like a lot of kids you know I always had the dream of growing up becoming a professional athlete and just continuing to do what I love to make a living out of it in my junior year though I went up to duncan to practice came down and landed on somebody's foot and basically shredded my knee so it was a long recovery process and during that time it just didn't make sense to continue so I chose another route see see I always had the dream of being the next Bo Jackson yes and the that was the guy I you know worshipped him I had 500 plus cards of his I was I didn't realize the money nowadays I have them still so what did that teach you about leadership now that you're into this business space? well I think everything from athletics trans just transitions into leadership everything from being coached to the ability to encourage and lift up teammates to dedication and consistency and hard work and developing your your personal skills all that just translates very nicely into leadership and so you know going from being a player to still being involved with athletics and becoming a coach and helping other people develop their skill sets is exactly what leadership is about and so it was very easy for me to transition into a leadership role because I was so used to performing at a high level for teaching other people how to grow their school science um and that's where we're at today I think that's fantastic one of the things I want to work with with my son is that hard work and dedication again and again we ask if you want to get good at something what do you do and he says you got to do it again and again he's seven years old we're also teaching them if you want money where do you go and the answer is go to work so good things to learn in sports well that's a little interesting aspect we'll weave that into the business here a little bit more we'll talk about it but talk to us first of all who are you to speak to us on subject of leadership who are you to speak to us on the topic of really successful company revenue building leadership? sure so so over the last five years mike have built out five different software companies uh two of those are now venture backed all of those are now generating over a million dollars in annual revenues and um I basically started out everything as a side hustle like so many different people and was was fortunate enough to have enough success to where my side gig ultimately became my my main gig and gave me the the capital that I needed to continue growing and expanding so I built a staffing company first scaled it to a million in revenue took the 30 that I was uh profiting from that launched a software company grew that to three and a half million in revenue from there uh operating under what's called a studio model where when my developers are rolling off of client projects they come and work on our products so we were lucky enough to take several of those to market and uh we're able to find some traction and continue to grow and scale them out so I've got a lot of experience in in rapidly testing the market and launching products and and ultimately scaling them to to find uh or to attain meaningful uh revenue. what I love is for all of our listeners here a lot of the people that are tuning in right now and they're watching this they're listening to this as a drive-in first of all thank you for doing this thank you for a part of advance and as you're going through this I know a lot of you are in the tech space and I know a lot of people have ideas of side jobs and ideas of something that they might want to do at some point in time so the resonate with what you're talking about here and they're wanting to advance their careers so whether you stay in or whether you get out you're going to get some great things that you're going to pick up right here from Patrick. Especially if you're thinking hey I want to get out and do something and you're in that soft source space really tune in and then look up Patrick and I know he's launching a podcast we'll talk about later as well first of all for all of the leaders that are listening right here also when you say you manage five different companies and their revenues all over a million dollars there's instantly everything can shoot I'm having a hard time managing eight people 10 people 15 people I'm having a hard time managing myself so what do I do and what have you learned in managing five different companies and I would expect them to compete for your attention how are you are you managing that? yeah I'm a master of prioritizing my time that's that's the first thing being extremely intentional and focused when I'm working within those companies and basically I have something on my side that I call a hit list right and that hit list is not a list of names that I'm looking to scratch off that is the priorities that I have for the next day I do this every night that will ultimately move the needle for my businesses the things that have to be done in order for everything to continue moving forward and just for everyone else that's looking at starting one of my favorite quotes is from "Theodore Roosevelt" and it says comparison is the thief of joy right and so so many people have a tendency to compare their day one to other people's day 100 right and I think that's a huge mistake that that prevents a lot of people from getting started so when you look at industry leaders a lot of people have a tendency to pick the most polarizing figures the ones that have had the most success uh but you've got to realize that they also started from scratch and so when we were starting from scratch as a scrappy startup with with four employees it looked a lot different than it does now right where I've got 35 employees here based in the U.S I've got 200 developers in India so it was a big process for moving up and moving on and basically reaching that next level and the same thing happens is every new level you reach has its own unique problems and those problems continue to grow and get bigger so for me it was just about starting small staying grounded in what I know works at a foundational level and then continuing to imitate that or mimic that across the different businesses that I was starting up and so five sounds like a lot but at the same time going through and documenting those lessons learned uh documenting what works and what doesn't and building out frameworks and processes that you can continue to to develop and use across those businesses makes it very easy so setting up and launching a new business for me versus a brand new entrepreneur looks very different right just because I've been there I've done that I know what works and I know how to avoid a lot of those pitfalls that that especially young entrepreneurs are going to ultimately face let's come back to that in a moment because I'd love to know if you have a blueprint for for doing what you're doing so we'll come back to that what kind of when you talk about priorities you're doing it at night is there any other tools that you're doing what happens if you get that Austin that project or that person that takes you away from that priority talk to us a little bit more about that? yeah and inevitably that's going to happen right anytime you're running multiple businesses or anytime you're running a single business um the unforeseen circumstances that pop up in in day to day business um they're gonna ultimately shift your your attention and so for me it's it's about time blocking right I go through and I say hey from this time to this time I'm doing deep work in this company right I'm not one of those people that sits there and checks my email all day long um I'm not someone that will respond back to you in five minutes and the reason is because I'm working so I have to be extremely protective of my time and make sure that I am spending uh enough focus and energy in the right areas so that again I continue to to move the needle and move things forward and so it's not about it's not about tools it's more about a mindset that I have adopted over time uh that has helped me you know block out all the noise and really do deep work each and every day. You mentioned the email I mean that's a common thing for a lot of people that email throws them off right right so and that's that's the thing it's like most of the issues that you're going to source unless you have employees that are busting into your office most of the the problems that you're going to source are going to be from email right it's going to be your colleagues your co-workers your clients that are reaching out to you because of a problem or an issue or you know downtime within your software and so if you're looking at that all day every day you're constantly in the frame of mind of problem solving right which means that I'm going to be reactive I'm going to wait for the next email to arrive then I'm going to address it and then I'm going to try to start doing something else and then I'm going to come back to it as soon as I get the next email right and so each time you do that you're unknowingly losing focus right and so instead of that there's a couple of tricks that I do use just for example on my phone setting the the focus time on my phone so that I'm not taking calls from people that uh I'm not interested in entertaining while I am actually doing that deep work and so that that gives me extreme focus uh and clarity on what I'm doing and that's the only way that I could run multiple companies at the same time is by being extremely intentional uh about how I'm using my time and then guarding that time. I love that it's sometimes with the the technology that we have now I mean I got my watch on right an email can come through and we know it and then we feel that pressure. yes I love there was uh something in college I learned on prioritization it was at the quadrants it has the urgent importance and all those quadrants fantastic you know I've loved that tool when I'm on top of my game I'm definitely doing something like that I'm not always on top of my game so sometimes I do get derailed yeah no I'm with you I'm very momentum driven uh not just in my my own business um in my personal life as well so it's it's very easy to pick up steam and momentum when you get those quick wins right and that again is email is just something that I'm self-aware enough to know that email detracts from me being able to continue and sustain that momentum yeah absolutely okay so talk to us about this blueprint I mean share with us whatever you're willing to share on how to quickly scale companies to a million dollars teach us how to become millionaires in software companies or whatever type of companies we're listening to and everybody else take your pen out get ready pull over on the side and uh this is this has worked several different times and I know that Patrick helps other people with this so Patrick walk us through this? sure so so after building five successful companies in five years I spent an inadequate amount of time um actually going through and defining this process recording it um and then I went back years later uh and did the same thing it was it was kind of a okay let's let's make sure we get a brained up on all this so that I could give people a framework uh that will ensure their growth and so if you look at the statistics 91 of all startups fail right and that number to me just just jumps out it's huge and the reason that it jumps out to me is because after successfully launching all these different ventures um I don't understand how people can fail at such a high rate right and so I may be a little bit out of tune with the market but I don't think that's the case I think it is that people fail to do the deep work first if you front load all of your effort on actually going through and validating uh the need for the product or service that you're looking at launching first understanding and going extremely deep on defining your ideal customer profiles and your buyer personas and then being aware of who your competitors are you can avoid launching a company in the first place that is with extreme resistance or lack of demand so just by doing the hard work up front you can alleviate or mitigate you know a huge amount of risk that goes along with starting a business and so from there it's really about unit economics understanding okay if I'm going to get to that million dollar mark right it's going to be very difficult to do selling 19 digital products if I'm looking at high ticket I'm looking at 3 000 to 6 000 annual contract value then it becomes much more attainable right you know exactly who those customers are you know who's willing to pay for it you know what problem it solves and then it's just about delivering on your promise ensuring that they're actually receiving the benefits of your value proposition and from there it makes it easy to capture case studies it makes it easy to capture testimonials success stories all the things that are going to help you uh basically multiply the number of clients that you have turn 1 into 10 10 into 100 100 into a thousand et cetera so that you can rapidly scale out your business through the social proof that you've collected and the feedback that you've collected from those people so a lot of it goes to setting up your business the right way on the front end making sure that your model is scalable that you know who your customers are and that you're not making assumptions about the industry so if you get those things right it becomes a lot less likely that you'll fail so when you're doing this you're now doing this kind of almost intuition based on what you did or you figured it out is there and people are going okay that that sounds easy or maybe it sounds complex have you put this together in I mean and I don't know if you do coaching or anything is there is there a process like do this this this this this I mean people are listening to this going make it simple. yes yes yes so we have a seven step process that we use just for validating an idea right and that's part of a larger guarantee to grow framework that we have um that basically takes you all the way from the ideation phase through to where you've actually built a product that are scaling it out right we're one of the only if not the only uh companies in the entire software development industry that actually offers a guarantee that your business will grow if it's a product that we're developing on or if we are providing marketing and support for it right so we feel extremely confident uh having done it a number of times not just with our own products but with over 100 client products and applications that we've launched and scaled that we've gotten it down to a science right so that framework is is basically a set of processes a set of playbooks and and basically an overall blueprint for how to be successful in in your business and so I do offer coaching um I've got a ton of incredible entrepreneurs that I work with I love the kind of intersection of business and innovation that's where you know my realm genius really lies so I'm really good at being able to analyze opportunities and to help people basically remove those barriers that they need to overcome in order to do what's next and to hit that next level so there's that research aspect the setting up doing the deep work a lot of people I find I mean for me I kind of happened into this entrepreneurial space and it's been a fantastic get up and it's been a very interesting thing to to do and I have three companies as well and it's been very interesting to go into and for me I mean it was kind of happened into it because I was working in corporate sales doing totally fine and then ended up writing a book that ended up becoming more and more and more and more so so I understand a little bit of what you're talking about here not in the software space but I did a little bit backwards I happened into it I fell into it okay because the book grabbed a niche that I didn't even plan on it was it was a hobby for me and then it went full time so I kind of happened into it so it's interesting for for you to look at and go okay actually do the deep research because you don't typically happen into something Do that understand your market and and the third company we started definitely we did a lot a lot more of that research and let's let's look at what people need sure do you think there's a lot of people who are hoping for my kind of just fall into success story I mean realizing that I had 20 years of experience doing this so it's not like I fell into it but I fell into the success moment or what do you think what is what is the main thing that's holding the back are they not doing the deep work in advance are they are they running before they're ready to run what are the problems that people are having? yeah so I think the the top three problems uh number one is people make assumptions right just because you have an issue with uh within your industry within the way that you operate and do business does not does not mean that everyone else across the market does right so when you when you make assumptions you are basically introducing bias into the equation that could easily be prevented and so if you actually go out and do that deep work and you are interviewing customers you're performing uh surveys and and collecting feedback from within your target market then you will come to know those customers and that more importantly that customer base intimately and you will understand you know what drives the decision making what are the what are the huge pain points that actually need solving and then that helps you create an offer uh to ultimately provide a solution I think I think absolutely I mean most people fail by not doing the deep work first um once you get past that a lot of it is businesses are just under capitalized or the the uh founding team the leadership team steers them in the wrong direction I mean there's there's so many issues that can continually kind of rear their heads up but you have to get through that first stage first to really understand what those even look like and how to deal with those when they come I was checking out some of your content and of course if you go on YouTube or a lot of places the ads targeted at me are like sales funnels and yeah websites and I got websites and I have sales funnels and yet I was looking at some of your content you differentiate those from from from a flywheel now when I think flywheel I think good to great the flywheel going on when you talk about flywheel I'm sure there's an element of that but how do you differentiate it from everything else that you do and from sales funnels and traditional websites? so a website by design is is more informational right so if you if you look at things from the initial kind of web 1.0 uh then going forward to web 2.0 web 3 where we are now you know web one was really static informational sites right it was designed to tell you what a company does what their mission is who they serve but if you look at a sales funnel right it's very result oriented right it's very focused on being able to achieve a desired result right which is ultimately to capture the the traffic that is coming across your website convert them into leads qualify those leads move them through uh the funnel until the point of conversion right so it's it's different objectives you know in terms of communicating who you are as a brand versus your actual marketing activities uh that will lead you to growing and scaling a business and so in terms of a flywheel a flywheel is is a little bit different it's it's kind of the the new iteration or the new evolution uh of your actual sales funnel right and that goes across with with partnerships with other companies understanding who can receive value from what you do and then understanding what the different channels or initiatives are that you can feed to your business that will help you basically unlock new leverage of growth so from a flywheel if you're looking at your business through the lens of a flywheel right and for people that don't know a flywheel is basically a mechanical device that that takes a lot of energy or inertia in order to get started but once it builds that momentum it's extremely difficult to stop right so you continue to feed it with all these different initiatives right as a young business this may be adding in code email outbound sales processes for for cold calling or for uh lead generation all these different new initiatives and every time you are feeding it it continues to move things forward right you continue to generate leads from from new channels and you're able to to basically test and and uh iterate through those extremely quickly right based on the feedback that you're getting and so it's kind of the the next generation where it has that compounding effect that people are so uh used to linking towards finance right but the same thing is true within your business right over time the more initiatives that you feed it the more momentum that you can build and the more that those play into each other right so that's why when you talk about having a sound content strategy the reason that a content strategy is so important is because that content can live forever you can create evergreen content and then it also can speak to all the different phases of the buyer journey so you're going from problem aware to solutional aware right creating content serving it up to people at different levels of that funnel then you're going to uh product aware price aware and ultimately the point of conversion and so being able to create content that kind of moves people through that wherever they are extremely valuable and so all these different initiatives the goal is to continue moving the ball forward and to test what works rapidly to kill what doesn't and to continue promoting uh and doubling down on the things that do what is one of the five wheels that you're running for one of your companies? sure so for uh spring which is one of the venture-backed companies that we run uh in addition to the traditional service that we provide as a software we also provide a mastermind program for that so it's something that you know we have a lot of health and wellness professionals uh that don't know how to build a business they don't know anything about the technical side of it whether that's anything from SEO or from running paid ads for example in order to drive leads on on social media or through advertising they don't understand the concepts of email marketing or any of the other different growth initiatives that you can have and so basically we are providing them with uh standard operating procedures for a lot of that stuff and we're providing them with real world examples of how they can grow we do process audits and things like that so that they can basically learn how to build a better business right and so that flywheel in addition to helping us attract customers through differentiation because there's no other company that does that um within that space it also gives us the opportunity to create expansion revenue because now these people are coming up like hey I need a landing page or I need a website I need a sales funnel I need uh SEO I need all these other services from a marketing perspective that you guys provide and so it's it's the same kind of you know diy uh dfy done for you and a fully managed type of environment where you know we provide access to all three obviously just at different price points and so that's a great way that a great example I can give of creating a flywheel in your business right just understanding how you can add value um or value-added services and then looking for opportunities to continue to to grow through upselling cross-selling cross-promoting etc. what is the difference between looking at a flywheel to keep the company growing and looking at the lifetime value of a single customer that might come in? sure so the the whole purpose of the the flywheel is to increase that lifetime value right so it's it's understanding how I can provide other value-added services to them in order to increase that LCV um and also to help move them forward and so this business that I was telling you about spring for example is uh is based up the entire pricing model is based on the client's ability to grow their business right so we have aligned our model we earn a per user per city cost that is lower and the more that they grow the more money we make and so we are incentivized uh in our introductory line to help them grow and so that is a great model I think uh to do business and it's one of those things where you have skin in the game as well as your clients and if you're able to perform them at a high level and grow out their business then you both profit from it uh equally so it's good. okay so so let's let's move over to a different topic because you keep on hitting on venture capital and I know that you're in an NFT space and such so let's just take a moment to talk about investing now this is something that you're looking at and you're something you're involved in so say you got a manager you got someone out there and they're just they're listening to this they're trying to advance their career advance their life talks was just a little bit I know it's really part of the plan here let's just go into investing a little bit what's your thoughts? it's one of those things everyone has their own take on it um you know so not giving financial advice but I do yeah that's what we want to know what you do yeah so you're always going to have certain uh tried and trued uh avenues for basically generating a return um real estate over time always gonna traditionally outperform the market what people really wanna hear about I'm sure that's what you wanna hear about as well is uh how do cryptocurrencies and how do NFTs play into the equation now that they are emerging asset classes um it's one of the the highest growth asset classes that we've had especially in modern history and the reason is is primarily the the hype and frenzy around it that was part of the initial days when you started hearing stories about people becoming overnight millionaires and in some cases billionaires from cryptocurrency it's one of those headlines that just you know ultimately grabs your attention um I'm heavily invested in NFTs uh and cryptocurrencies I'm extremely selective in the ones that I actually invest into there recently as you may or may not be aware there was a big crypto crash as they they call it uh but this is something that historically happens um every few years or so where you'll have a huge regression or draw down uh in the market cap of these companies and you'll have a large amount of investors that pull out uh and basically you're able to kind of manipulate the market so I think what we're seeing right now is really what I call the the great shaking right it's similar to back in in uh early 2000's kind of turn of the century where you had the dot-com bubble where you're going to end up with a few companies or a few currencies cryptocurrencies that are going to be around for the long term those are the ones that provide a maximum amount of value and utility those are primarily your top 10 uh coins such by market cap and so those are the ones that I think will be around long term but I think the majority of them you know there's over 10 000 now uh fall off the face of the earth and and go to zero and so you know it's extremely risky right now just because of the existing climate and kind of the economic downturn uh it's a great buying opportunity you know you had bitcoin up by almost uh it's seventy thousand at the all-time high I think it was e6 almost six seven thousand uh it's down to twenty thousand that's one that over the next three to five years it's gonna go back to that uh historical high if not surpassing it so you know again there's so much being done uh around web three and around NFTs and around cryptocurrency that user adoption still has not caught up with the innovation and if you look at things like uh the creation of the automobile right eventually the automobile the the manufacturing of the first vehicle from the time that the first vehicle was manufactured it took almost 50 years to reach public mass adoption and so if you look at other innovations like the internet for example you know it took another 25 years for the internet to be commonplace and achieve mass adoption so what we're seeing here is those adoption cycles get much shorter and so we're still extremely early on within the process but I think it's going to be commonplace and and tied into part of everyday finance and so many different other applications uh here in the next decade and so obviously a lot of barriers that have to be overcome but in my mind uh it's a certainty I just that was really interesting because I was reading your profile right and I knew that you were involved in NFTs and blockchain and such so it's interesting to see especially since it looks like you're a guy who's got a diversified portfolio you got your real estate stuff going on there you got your and this is really what I thought about investment I mean you're basically investing in startups back in startups owning startups that yeah you run but eventually you sell off and that's a great investment so I was wondering how much you were diversifying when I mean you're you're really invested hands-on in the in the startup space yeah I mean I mean most of it and again if it's technology if it's business I'm there um you know keeping up with with the latest in trends is something I have to do understanding what innovations are hitting the market uh what the market is expected to do everything from ar vr mr you know you name it becoming intimately familiar with those technologies and how they can impact the existing operating environment and also what opportunities exist as a result those are all things that I you know am passionate about and stay up to date on but of course there's still the the old tried and true uh index funds and all the other fun stuff that you know you got to have your safe place uh while also going and realizing that hey if and when I retire it's going to be however long from now I've got a lot of time to really focus on high growth uh investing yeah fun but that's a whole different conversation but I'm glad at least to touch into it hey is there anything else that you just want to leave the audience with today you say hey to advance I want you to think about this yeah the the the biggest thing and I hear this advice so often from from leaders from influencers and a number of other well-known people they always say the trick is to just get started and I hate I hate hate hate that advice um because to get started you need a vision you need a plan right so the again you're asking someone to kind of jump into the middle of something uh just to be in the habit of of doing but you still need to have that foundational understanding of what it is that you're trying to achieve who it is that you're trying to serve who your audience is so that you can go out and actually attack the market so before you just start understand what you're starting spend time doing the deep work so many challenges so many problems can be avoided uh not just in your professional career but in your personal career as well just by taking the time to do the research uh and to focus on those those activities you know I think that's that's a great insight because I shared my entrepreneurial story with you in some ways I just started now it was it was a side hobby for me so it's quite literally like my extra time I'm doing the stuff I'm just doing it for fun and I didn't have a vision I wasn't planning on becoming like nowadays I have executive communication clients around the world that are who's who and I have books that are being sold and TEDx booked all kinds of stuff but I had to go back because I started and then had to thought think what am I doing and I literally had to go backwards and create systems because I didn't have any yeah and so I'm not I'm not saying spend all your time investing in and building the systems up front right and in your case your story's a little different just similar to how mine was I had an existing career I had my my financials and everything covered there was less risk when I started it because I started as hustle too yeah um but I mean for people I see a lot of people that just go quit their job because they want to do something it's like you know you've got to evaluate some of those those life choices um in advance but even for you you didn't start from scratch you started from experience right um you had that 20 years of experience that kind of led you to that point so a lot of the challenges that I'm sure you faced in your business you'd already been familiar with from your professional career and then going back and just jumping into it it's like okay hey I wrote a book and now I'm starting to get all this attention and and it's growing from here I'm going to jump into coaching because it's a logical progression you know those things again it's very different from someone starting out and just saying okay I don't have any experience as an entrepreneur uh a lot of times you have people that don't even have experience you know managing other people running a business yeah um you know in in that from that perspective it's the it's a dangerous bit of advice I love doing it as a side hustle I think that's and then building it from there I interviewed a guy from diesel laptops not too long ago and it was very interesting I mean he did this as a side hustle I think it teaches grit it teaches determination it teaches time management because you're doing it on the side it teaches a lot of these different things and passion like if you don't like it get out exactly exactly and there's always that that kind of safety net which you know is a double-edged sword in itself because you have some people that have the mindset of oh hey if this doesn't work and they plan for it not to work uh versus the I'm gonna do whatever it takes right in my free time to actually make this work and so i think a lot of that goes back to mindset but but you're absolutely right i mean i would tell clients all the time like hey don't quit your day job like let's move forward let's let's understand how you can make the time and and identify um things that you can eliminate uh in order to kind of get this rolling and yeah absolutely once it's there once you can afford to replace your salary or the majority of your salary or what it takes you to be comfortable uh or your family to be comfortable in a lot of cases um then it's time to step away and start focusing on that solely that's fantastic Patrick this has been great hey where can people find you where can people uh find out about your podcast coming up absolutely you can find me on a LinkedIn, Instagram pretty much anywhere where you consume content already I've got a podcast launching next month called guaranteed to grow it'll be basically walking people through in the end how to start uh how to scale a a software company and so definitely check me out there uh also do a lot of coaching for young entrepreneurs that want to make sure that they get it right out of the gate basically just helping to do de-risk all the startup activities that come along with running a business where's the website for that sas partners dot io s-a-a-s partners dot io check me out there you can click on the guaranteed to grow tab and see uh everything from coaching services to applications to actually be part of that program where we ensure growth uh in the the uh our clients companies that's great well thank you Patrick and we'll put all of those in the show notes and on YouTube but really great thanks so much for being on the show today absolutely thanks so much for having me mike's been a pleasure and to all of our listeners and our viewers thank you so much for taking time to check this out make sure you like subscribe comment and share check out the show notes and all the different places that Patrick just talked about until next time it's been mike acker with advance Thanks for listening to advance with a podcast designed to provide an edge for leaders through improving practical leadership skills and increasing confidence in speaking mike is a best-selling author and business owner who has helped many leaders increase their skills and their confidence propelling them to new heights in their personal and professional endeavors join an incredible group of professionals taking the steps to become better leaders at connect.steps2advance.com don't forget to rate review and subscribe so you never miss an episode.